Marriage and Singleness Q&A
Transcript
Good morning. My name is Spencer Carey. I'm a pastor in training here with Mill City Church. I am an optimistic person. I try to tackle any given workday, like tomorrow is a workday for me, and I do real estate and also serve here. And I try to tackle as much as I can, so tomorrow I'm going to wake up and I'm going to have this huge plan and I'm going to tackle getting my daughter to preschool.
I'm going to tackle writing contracts and doing stuff, and then I'm going to tackle preparing for sermons over the next couple of weeks. And I try to do all these things. My wife, she finds out about these plans regularly, and she just kind of smiles. Because she's like, you continuously bite off more than you can chew. And I do. And what's good to know is that I'm not the only one.
That Chet Phillips also does the same thing. That as we were planning this section of Ephesians months ago, we had planned that we're going to spend some time in marriage, and that we're going to have a Q&A that we're going to do, and we're going to tack that into one of the sermons, and it's going to be great. And then your questions started to come in. And we realized, oh, I don't think we're going to be able to just take 15 minutes to answer all these questions. I think that we're going to actually have to spend some more time doing this. So this morning is going to be a little bit different.
Typically, we'd open up the Bible. We'd read through a passage, and we'd preach from the text, and that's what we'd do. And we had planned originally for this Sunday to be kind of in line with Mother's Day, that we were going to have parenting starting Ephesians 6, and it was going to coincide with Mother's Day, and it's going to be awesome. And then once we saw kind of we were running out of space to do that, it's like we actually really need to take some time and address these questions. And they didn't line up so well. So sorry for Mother's Day that we couldn't have the Mother's Day sermon that we wanted.
You get to listen to questions and answers, which I'm sure you guys were gearing up for. So we're going to spend what's going on this morning. I'm going to quickly walk through where we've been in Ephesians, and then I'm going to answer one of the questions we have first. I'm going to teach you that because it's a little bit more nuanced. Sometimes it takes a little more time, a little more space, but ultimately this question that will come up first will kind of set the framework for how we answer the rest of these questions. And then once I work through that, I'm going to have Katie Freeman, who's one of our community group leaders, and Chet Phillips, one of our pastors, come up, and we're going to work through the rest of these questions.
I'm going to pray, and then we'll start. God, thank you for today. God, I pray that you would bless this time, that it would be beneficial, that as we walk through these, you would show us your will. We ask this in Jesus' name. Amen. All right, so summarizing where we've been, we've been in Ephesians for the last like six months, and we've been in this section of Ephesians 5 for over a month now, walking through the picture of marriage, and it's couched in the context of Ephesians.
In the first three chapters, Paul walks through the picture of the gospel, that God chose the church, that he came to redeem the church, that while we were dead in sin, he died for us and made us alive, that by grace we have been saved. And he extends this picture of the gospel for three chapters, then he pivots into chapter 4, and starts doing coaching and correction with the church, applying the gospel. Then we get to Ephesians 5, and we get to this section on marriage. And we see here, as Paul lays it out, that just as Jesus is the head of the church, the body, so the husband should be the head of his wife.
That he should lead, that he should sacrificially love. We walked through that a few weeks back. And that wives should respect and follow and submit to their husbands. And when this cycle of love and respect is happening, we are showing a beautiful picture of the gospel in marriage. So we spent some time walking through that.
And as we've been walking through that, we also walked through singleness last week, how God has, how our culture says you need someone to be complete. And we come in with the Bible and say, no, we walked through 1 Corinthians 7, on how you don't need someone else to be completed. You need Christ to be completed. And as we've been working through this, these questions came in. And one question in particular, which takes a little more time, was this. Why has the leadership chosen to espouse complementarianism over egalitarianism?
All right, a lot of big words there. So why have we chosen, as a church, we uphold the position of complementarianism? So why have we chosen that over egalitarianism? So these are two positions on gender roles in the church. Egalitarianism coming from the French word égal, which means equal. And what ultimately that position is advocating for is equality in roles, that wives could be the heads of their husbands and that women could ultimately be pastors and preach with authority.
That's kind of the overarching position of egalitarianism. And we come alongside as complementarians and say, that's not what the Bible teaches, that the Bible teaches that our roles are complementary. So I'll walk through that in a moment. But I want to say out the gate that there are Jesus-loving, Bible-believing Christians in both sides of this debate. One of my mentors for the past 10, 15 years, someone I love deeply, who is, he married my wife and I. He continually checks in on me.
He's a pastor in Houston. I became a Christian in a Methodist church, and he's a Methodist pastor now in Houston. I love this dude, and he loves me, and we don't agree on this. He comes from the egalitarian side, and I come from the complementarian side, and gender roles debate. But both of us love Jesus, and we love the mission of the church, and I pray that he would reach people in Houston.
But we differ on this. Now, there are two extremes that get pushed out of this that are not biblically based. And I'll have a slide that comes up that will show this. That on one end of the spectrum, when you push egalitarianism to its extreme, you get feminism, specifically Christian feminism. And when you push complementarianism to an extreme, you get patriarchy. And those two positions do not find a place in the Bible.
So let me tackle this first one, patriarchy. This is not necessarily the term for patriarchs in the Old Testament. That's not what it's going for. It's more of a term that has been used to describe that men rule in the house, that men rule in general over women. That's the position of patriarchy. And it comes from the idea that though Genesis 1 says that men and women are made in the image of God, they have taken that, and they say, No, actually, women are made in the image of men.
And men are made in the image of God. Therefore, any language about headship gets extended out of that logic. And what happens and what flows out of that is a ton of unhelpful teaching and really some abuse. And I kind of thought that this position had faded away a little bit, but I was reminded about a month or two ago in California, this family of 13 kids was rescued from a family. And the oldest was 27. She was like 90 pounds and had been systematically abused for all of her life based off of this guy's understanding of patriarchy in the Bible.
And that finds no weight in the Bible. That is out. You cannot be a consistent Christian and uphold that position. So that's one extreme. The next extreme on the other end of the spectrum is Christian feminism. At its core, feminism did some really awesome things.
In the 1800s, when the feminist movement started, the whole core of the position is equal rights for men and women. And the fact that women can vote, the fact that there has been a pushback against systematic sexual harassment and abuse in our culture is good. But man, where that has extended and what has been the overarching theme of feminism and what it is today has been extremely unhelpful. And if you look at it from a position of Christian feminism, what has happened is a response to patriarchy by saying, we're going to view the Bible skeptically. That if the Bible says things, we're going to question the Bible as a basis even for this debate.
So I studied at a college in a religion department that was primarily, it was from a Christian feminist position on gender roles. And they regularly would pray to Mother God. They would change the language of the Bible. They would take any passages that dealt with male leadership or headship and completely chuck them out. All of the Bible is filtered through the position of extreme feminism and not much comes out the other side. And I even have one.
I was one professor. I remember I opened a Bible and I was reading through the ESV, which is the version that we use. And she was yelling at me right in the face that we should never use that version because of how it translates the Bible. When in fact, it's one of the most helpful English translations that we have. And eventually she went to the academic department and got that version banned from our religion department. And that's kind of the flow of Christian feminism.
Everything gets filtered through the extreme position of feminism that is today. And those two extremes, if you look at them, they don't consistently follow the teachings of the Bible. So those two are extremes. I want to just take a moment to walk through the two positions that can be held in the Bible and by Bible-believing Christians. The first position is egalitarianism. Egalitarianism pushes for equal roles for men and women, specifically that wives can be the heads of their husbands and that women can preach with authority in the local church.
That is the push of egalitarianism. And some of what egalitarianism has pointed out has been really beautiful and good. Like the fact that the past hundred years has been a push to say, look at the ferocious, strong women in the Bible who have character and were forces of good. Like they point out Deborah from the Old Testament. They point out Ruth. They point out Mary, mother of Jesus.
And we're like, yeah, we need that correction. Sometimes we focus on some of the male leaders in the Bible and we say, wow, like no, we absolutely should focus on their character, on who they were. So egalitarianism has pointed out some very helpful things over the years. But I want to walk through the root of their argument and how they approach the Bible. Egalitarians approach the Bible from the perspective that male headship, what we've talked about the last month, is rooted in the fall. It's rooted in sin that came into the world in Genesis 3.
And that the rest of the Bible, any type of male headship, is a result of fallenness that happened at the fall. So they go through the Old Testament and really the New Testament, there's one verse that their position is hung on very strongly that they fight for. And it comes out of Galatians 3, verse 28, which says, And what they're saying is, is because of Jesus and because of this verse that gender has been flattened. There's no Jew, there's no Greek, that all of us have the same roles and opportunities in marriage and in the church. And that has been used as the logic for much of egalitarianism today.
Now, before I move on to complementarianism and explain that position and why we hold it, I want to see that verse in its context because that really is the linchpin for much of their arguments. If you look at verse 25, a few verses back, it says, But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. For in Christ Jesus, you are all sons of God through faith. For as many of you were baptized into Christ, have put on Christ. There's neither Jew nor Greek, there's neither slave nor free, there's no male and female, for you're all one in Christ Jesus. So when you look at this, what is actually happening here is that faith is what's being upheld here.
And what argument that Paul is making is that in faith, that in Christ, in your redemption that Jesus has done for you, none of you are better than the other. That was a huge problem in the New Testament church that Jews thought they were better than Gentiles, that Gentiles are saying, no, we're better, and that male and female, that there was this argument going, and Paul comes in and says, no, none of you are better, each of you are equally valued because you are one in Christ. So it's not a statement of rule, it's a statement of value. That we are all equally one and valued in Christ. Which brings us to the last position, the position that we hold as a church, which is complementarianism.
That is a big way of saying that men in the Bible were created to lead in marriage, and that men were also created to lead in the church as pastors, and that wives have complementary roles to husbands, and that women have complementary roles to men in the church. And our argument for that starts with male headship and male leadership being rooted not in the fall, but actually being rooted in creation. That when you go back to the garden, in Genesis 1 and 2, before the fall, you're going to see that Adam was created first. That creation order matters. And we're going to see that show up again later in the New Testament.
We see that in the garden, God holds Adam responsible for what happens at the fall. And then we see that before the fall happens, that Eve is called Adam's helper, which is the Hebrew word for hezer. That these were pre-fall realities, a part of the fabric of God's creation, that men were created to lead. And we see that flow throughout the rest of the Old Testament, that the tribal leaders were men, that the priests were men. And usually about that time, when egalitarians, when they hear this, they'll say, but what about women like Deborah? And I'll say, absolutely.
We look at a figure like Deborah in the book of Judges. She was a political leader at the time that stepped up in a time of need when men were failing and helped lead the nation of Israel in a vital period of time, which is why you'll never hear a stay from the sage, don't ever vote for a woman. We're not going to say that because the Bible doesn't hold that position. In the time where men are failing, absolutely, women can be political leaders that help lead, but that's not what happens in the book of Judges. She's not a spiritual leader. And more importantly, the book of Judges and the whole point of the book of Judges is that this is not the way it's supposed to be, that the whole nation of Israel, each judge that came in was failing over and over again.
It's not a picture that we go to. And then when you move to the New Testament, one question that I've asked our egalitarian brothers and sisters in Christ, I've asked if Jesus was so counter-cultural, if he was so revolutionary, and he was, I mean, he stared down the religious leaders like he flipped the whole system on its head. And if this is who Jesus was, then why did he choose 12 men to lead the church as disciples? 11 of whom, and another man who was appointed would become the apostles in the church. And I've never gotten a good answer for that. That Jesus, who is setting up his church, who is flipping the system on its head, he chose men to be the ones who lead.
And then the flowing out of that in the New Testament is that men would lead as pastors. And when we flip to 1 Timothy 2, you look at 1 Timothy 2, Titus 1, 1 Timothy 3, these lay out how men are called as pastors. And then you look at 1 Timothy 2, and it says this, I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. Rather, she is to remain quiet. And I, just being honest, I used to be an egalitarian because I became a Christian in the Methodist church. And when I would hear people quote this passage, my go-to response was, no, you don't understand.
Like, this is culturally different. That the women in the church back then weren't educated. And that's why Paul is putting this there. And I used to hang so much of my arguments on the cultural realities at the time until finally someone said, yeah, but what about verse 13? When he gives the logic for why he says this, when he says, for Adam was formed first, then Eve. There are absolutely cultural elements happening here.
But that's not what Paul's arguing. He's arguing out of creation order. This is why he's designed men to be pastors. Similar things happen when we look at Ephesians 5 and how we've spent time in that. That the order that he has had, that he's established in marriage that we've walked through is actually rooted in something that's eternal. It's rooted in the gospel.
And that's unchanging. And you go to 1 Corinthians 11, 3, which is another passage on headship. And it says, but I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ and the head of the wife is her husband and the head of Christ is God. And the logic that's being played out there is in the same way that the Father is the head of the Trinity. He's the head of Jesus the Son the same way husbands are the heads of their wives. And nobody is going to make the argument from a Christian standpoint that the Father is better than the Son, that Jesus isn't equal to God in value.
If you did, you'd be a heretic. That's heresy that's been condemned for over 1,500 years in the church. But we would say, no, absolutely not. They are equal in value in the same way husbands and wives are equal in value. But we have different roles.
So we take cultural considerations in the New Testament seriously. And we look at them and we look at history and we try to figure out what's going on. But we also know that our truth is rooted in eternal patterns that go back to creation order, that go back to the gospel, that go back to our Trinitarian God. And that is why we as a church we uphold the position of complementarianism. And when we do that and the culture hears that, the culture is going to rage. We're going to be called everything in the book.
We're going to be called backward, archaic, chauvinistic, everything down the line. And I get it. I understand where they're coming from. But we don't let culture dictate our positions as a church. We let the Bible speak for itself. And this is what we think the Bible consistently teaches from Old Testament to New.
And as a church, this is what we believe. But we also, this means we don't value the opinions and the wisdom of women. That's why we as a church we have deacons that are women in our church. We see deacons in the New Testament that are women. Deacon is just the word diakonos in Greek which means servant. We have women who are lead servants who are crushing it in our church.
That's why as a teaching team there are three of us. There's Chet, Bianca McDowell, and myself. And when we craft sermons together, I love having Bianca in the room because she challenges me and Chet. She helps us see the Bible from a different perspective and she speaks wisdom into what happens up here. Over and over again, we are reaching out to women in our church because of the wisdom and the strength they provide. But we order our church in the way that the Bible orders it and that's what we try to follow as a church.
So that is a long way of answering that question but that's going to give you a framework a little bit for the rest of the questions that we have today. I'm going to have Katie and Chet come up and we're going to finish our Q&A. And we've got about eight more questions and I appreciate all of you that sent questions in that were challenging. We spent the last three weeks talking through them, opening up the Bible, praying, debating the works. So with that in mind, let's transition.
I want to tag something real quick on what he was just talking about. I think one of the, we believe in complementarianism. I think one of the things that we've done though before as a church and I know I've done this some is say the word complementarianism and lean patriarchy because it's cleaner. It's easier to draw hard lines than it is to be in the middle of trying to figure out. So like even with Bianca McDowell on teaching team, that Timothy passage says I don't allow women to have authority or teach men but she's in there.
You know, it's like that's a less clean line but we actually want to lean more into the, no, we value women. We value their opinion. We value what God's poured into them and the help that they have and so I just know for us sometimes we've gotten that wrong. We've leaned a little bit too far to a, it's just cleaner to do this when we really need to embrace and lean in. So there can be times where we mess that up one way or the other but we're trying to actively grow in it and walk out with the scriptures we think say on them.
So. Thanks. That's more of a personal confession. So hi, my name's Chad and I'm a sinner. Alright, so. Our first question.
As a wife, how do you submit to your husband and be his sister in Christ especially when dealing with sin? Katie, do you want to take that one? Sure. The first thing we're always going to do here as a church is to direct you towards prayer. We want to go into anything where we have to address sin with a prayerful spirit so I'm going to ask the Lord where's my sin in this? Where do I need to repent?
And that just sets me up with a heart of humility and then I pray over my husband's sin. I can pray that he will be receptive and want to hear that when I do speak to him. But the next thing is just how do I approach my husband in this? That's what I want to consider before I start that conversation and I like to compare it to somebody maybe I respect in my life. So maybe that's somebody, a coach, a teacher, a boss, somebody that I would say yeah, they're getting it right and I respect them and I care about them and so I have an issue I need to address with them.
How am I going to set that up? And so if I was going to do that, I think if it were someone I respected, I'd want to give them some prep. I want to let them know that we're going to have this talk. I want to kind of tell them I need to talk to them about something. I want to go in humble. I want to build up the positive things that I see and then bring in the tougher stuff and then do it in a very respectful and humble way.
And then once you've done that and if you can take that same approach with your husband, then you need to just take a little time to allow him to repent. I think we immediately as women sometimes want to see the results, see the change but this is a goal for the long term is that he's able to overcome this sin and so I think we want to give him time and then as we continue to check in and say, how's this going? Are we growing here? Are we fixing things? Is the Lord working? Then if there is a need, you can bring in some help from your group or from a pastor but let's not rush there.
I think sometimes as a female we can see our other female community group members as somebody we can confide in and talk to but very quickly it can switch over to a little bit of husband bashing and we never want to go there. We always want to build our husbands up and be proud of who they are and put them in that position of respect and so kind of two approaches real quick here when we're talking with our community groups. The first one is females. When you're talking to other females about how to approach sin with your husband don't flaunt his sin. Talk to them and say here's my heart here's where I'm struggling can you can you help me to love my husband and have an appropriate view of his sin?
You don't even have to tell him what the sin is. And so and then the other one is instead of you telling your community group leader about your husband's sin direct him there. Let him go do that. Let him have that ownership. Shows respect. Shows you admire him and love him and hopefully over time with the Holy Spirit in your husband you can trust the Lord to change that in him.
What the sin is. And so and then the other one is instead of you telling your community group leader about your husband's sin direct him there. Let him go do that. Let him have that ownership. Shows respect. Shows you admire him and love him and hopefully over time with the Holy Spirit in your husband you can trust the Lord to change that in him. Thank you. I just want to add that ideally you can't go to your husband and address sin and regardless of your attitude
He's receptive wants to own his own sin wants to be repentant. 1 Peter 3 says what do you kind of speaks into what do you do when he doesn't obey like you don't want to hear it so you go to your husband and you say hey I think you're wrong here and he says the equivalent of well just shut your mouth and leave me alone and that's extremely difficult but Peter says that you win him over more with a gracious attitude a walking through that in the midst of that difficult with kindness with gentleness
Rather than continually trying to be like no I'm going to fix you I'm going to make you change and that's extremely difficult and that's where we would say what Katie was saying which is like at that point start leaning into church families start having other people praying with you start if they're a part of our our church family your husband's in a group or whatever then we can start following up with some church discipline and some different things like that to approach it with them but that can be a very difficult situation
Alright next question is there a line limit to your desire to be married if so what is it and why does it exist ok so we talked about singleness last week and basically just said that kind of do you have the desire do you not have the desire one of the things Paul says is that if you're burning with desire and so I would say that yes there is a line and a limit like you just too much but it's got to be past burning
Because the Bible says like that's that's kind of an ok zone so what I would say is you can desire marriage to a burning desire level like it can be a deep seated like I really want to get married I really feel this I have urges or whatever like I mean however you would put it so there is room for that the only thing that we would add in on that is just we are always careful to not allow something to become idolatrous which just means
It means more to us than Jesus does that we are elevating it to I have to have this to be ok I have to have this to feel loved I have to have this to be saved I have to like we've elevated it to save your position and so one of the tests for that if you're sitting there going like I really desire this and I have some questions is like ok are you willing to sin to get it I so badly want a husband
That I'll just move in with a guy I so badly want a wife that everything else is on the table like that amount of like well you've crossed the line because you've elevated it above Christ and so that would be our question was like no you can absolutely desire it you can absolutely burn with desire but don't allow it to become more valuable to you than Christ and with
Just in general line and limit questions whether it's this or another it takes a ton of leaning into the Holy Spirit of pursuing wisdom and prayerfully doing both of those so just keep that in mind as you're pursuing that as you're thinking through that and processing that next question is when is it ok to not submit as a wife especially if your
Husband is expecting you to follow him and not what the Bible says Katie can you take that when I read this question it was very clear to me that this is a woman who does want to submit to her husband and she's having trouble because he's asking her to sin to do that and so I'm sorry I know that these guys are sorry that you're
In that position we do think the Bible speaks to it and we want to support you in that so again we're going to immediately point you to prayer over it but then if you have specific questions over whether something is ok for you to partake in with your husband and you can't come to that on your own you have people who want to support you in that
Group leaders pastors other Christian believers within our church family so ask for help if you need it and don't be ashamed but then I want to point you to a biblical story that some of you may be familiar with the story of Ananias and Sapphira and basically this is a couple who sells a field they make some money and Ananias goes to take the money to the disciples feet
And when he does this he lies about how much he made and he's immediately struck dead and so then Sapphira comes in a little later and she is asked how much the field was sold for and she also lies and is immediately struck dead so that's just a small example of women we are held accountable to our sin
In these situations and so as Christians we need to know how to handle that and so there's a couple things that I want us to be aware of as a Christian we are called to love and respect and honor our husbands and that's what we want him to know especially if it's a non-believing spouse we want them to know that we are called to that and that's our passion
And our heart we also want them to know that we love Jesus and we do not want to sin and so we want to frame it that we want to follow you we don't want to sin and so ultimately in this situation I want women to think about how can I say yes to my husband right now maybe he's asking me to lie maybe he's asking me to watch porn maybe he's asking me
To cheat on our taxes and you can't say yes to those things and I think most of us know that but we want to know what can we do talk with your husband if he's scared for you to talk about him just losing his job that's real he may ask you to lie and tell people that he didn't lose his job and though you can't do that say what can I do in this situation that both honors God and honors you
And y'all come to a conclusion that unifies you brings you together this doesn't have to be destructive and so just praying that praying over what that can be how can you say yes to your husband and love him well in these challenging situations and we're here to help again group leaders and pastors want to walk with you through that if it's a struggle that's good next question
Outside of unfaithfulness is divorce ever okay okay so church family real quick we have a handful and a few more following this of questions about divorce and remarriage and even as we continue to go and even what we've already talked about this is extremely painful difficult personal stuff and so we want to start by saying
We want to answer these questions and we want to answer them biblically we want to talk to you so if you're walking through some of the situations that Katie was just talking about or some of the situations we're going to cover we want to talk with you we want to open the Bible with you we want to
Talk about your personal situation we want to talk we don't want it to just be like well here's what the Bible says and that be a hammer rather than that being what the Bible intends it to be which is a grace for us and so I want to say before we begin to answer some of these questions
That's our hope is that if you are actually walking through some of these scenarios these situations have more questions don't just leave frustrated let's talk and be frustrated together and so that's our request and if I have to say this I am approachable you can talk to me I know my face says otherwise on a regular basis after talking to me people will say hey this wasn't as bad
As I thought it was going to be and I've learned to just appreciate that and not be offended and so I just want to always tell them go tell other people that you can come talk to me but you can talk to me if you don't want to talk to me you can talk to Spencer or Raz or Matt and so you know you can talk to Spencer and Matt and Raz and I will hang out and y'all can come talk to us if you
Want to outside of unfaithfulness is divorce ever okay okay so the question is assuming automatically that in unfaithfulness divorce is okay and that is a reference they're referring to Matthew 5 or Matthew 19 I'm going to go to Matthew 19 I want to read some of this the overall weight of scripture towards marriage is that you should stay married if you are married that divorce is not okay
So I actually want to read this passage it says and the Pharisees came up to him this is Matthew 19 starting verse 3 the Pharisees came up to him and they tested him by asking is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause now that any cause is actually a phrase they're quoting from Deuteronomy 24 and we know historically there was a big debate in the Jewish in the Jewish approach to this
And one school of thought said it was kind of limited and another school of thought said any cause from Deuteronomy 24 meant she burnt your toast you found a lady that was more attractive I mean it's super like if you read the list it's aggressive at how much you could just divorce a woman for really no reason whatsoever similar to how we approach stuff today is it lawful
To divorce to any wife for any cause and he answered Jesus answered have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female and said therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife and the two shall become one flesh so they are no longer two but one flesh what therefore God has joined
Together let not man separate so his response is a he goes to the Genesis and just says no they shouldn't get a divorce should stay together God put them together he brought them together don't let anybody tear that up and then they said why then
Did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away and he said to them because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives but from the beginning it was not so and I say to you whoever divorces his wife and this is
The phrase that they're getting the except for sexual immorality a lot of translations will say marital unfaithfulness and marries another commits adultery so before we get into that clause I want to say this the Bible upholds a beautiful picture of marriage that a man
And a woman would cling together and it's actually the best bet for a good marriage is that you're not allowed to leave if both husband and wife go in with a this is our marriage and we're going to have to make it good it's the best bet
For a good marriage it's the best bet for a beautiful marriage is that if both of you were in saying there's no way out so if we're going to have a good marriage this is our shot at it whenever there's the back
Doors open and you get to look over your shoulder and get to say well if this one doesn't work out if this doesn't it leads to greater conflict greater difficulty also the Bible holds up that marriage is based off of Christ's
Love for the church it gives us all these beautiful pictures and calls us to so much joy and goodness in it and the Bible steps in it gives so much weight and rights to females that it's crazy given the
Context it was written in it's actually as if God is above culture and has a plan for how men and women should interact with one another and doesn't just let culture decide how that works and it's great
So that when in culture you'll notice can a husband divorce his wife do you know how wives were allowed to divorce their husbands they weren't your husband was terrible you have no real legal right you can run away but you can get yourself in trouble for that but husbands
Could just write a certificate and send you out and so Jesus steps in and says no don't but he does have this phrase except for sexual immorality and marries another commits adultery so that phrase except he uses the word adultery and he uses the word sexual immorality which is
Pornea and so that's what they're quoting in the case of unfaithfulness and so we would read this I read this and the majority opinion is even the majority opinion among our elders but not all of us opinion is that in the case of sexual immorality sexual sin that you can get a divorce and you can
Remarry because if you take the text as it's written except for sexual immorality and marries another commits adultery so the assumption would be if it were for sexual immorality when you married another you would not be committing adultery so Jesus holds up this picture for if
You get a divorce for any other reason than this then the question becomes what is sexual immorality what does that word mean it's a broad word that includes incest it includes bestiality it includes it's a whole list of things that
Aren't allowed in the Old Testament it includes fornication prior to marriage it includes and so for their culture when you were getting married to someone you had been betrothed since a young age they were supposed to be a virgin both of
You were and there was this idea that if you got married and soon found wait this person isn't a virgin that would be grounds that's porneia that's why it extends out and our culture is a little bit different so if
Some of y'all just said oh so I can get out if I just know that this person slept around in high school it's like that's not really what it's going for and the great weight of scripture Matthew 10
Luke 16 Matthew 5 1 Corinthians 7 the great weight of scripture is no you don't want to get a divorce you want to make it work you want to forgive that you should work this out the only other instance where the bible kind of says when you ask is it okay to
Get a divorce would be 1 Corinthians 7 and I want to read this passage real quick to the married I give this charge not I but the Lord and all he's saying is I'm quoting Jesus this is what he understood Jesus to be
Saying in the passages we were just reading the wife should not separate from her husband but if she does she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband and the husband
Should not divorce his wife to the rest I say and he says I not the Lord meaning I'm not quoting Jesus that's confusing but if the unbelieving partner separates let it be so
In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved God has called you to peace for how do you know wife whether you will save your husband or how do you
Know husband whether you will save your wife so Paul speaks to a very specific situation where someone becomes a Christian and then the spouse
Says I don't want to be married to you anymore I heard of a case where an instance where this couple had an open marriage and
They were often going to orgies and swinging and that sort of thing and then one of them became a Christian and she was like I can't do that
Anymore and she even was in the position she was like you can't I know that's how we started this I'm going to graciously be here but
I can't and he just said no you're different you're different now and if you're not going to do this and so the Bible steps into
That situation and says if he won't live with you if he divorces you okay you're free you're not having to try to wait
To reconcile you're not having to try to pursue you're not trying to have to so if two Christians get a divorce we're going
To go alongside whoever and say no you need to reconcile you need to work this out you need to pursue you need to wait and he just says
In the situation no you're okay you're not enslaved so I would say the two instances that are clearly addressed sexual immorality if you
Are married to an unbeliever who will not stay married to you you are free to sign that paperwork and accept it rather than
Try to fight it as aggressively as we would say you would fight in all other cases for things to that leaves a lot
Of room that leaves a lot of questions immediately it's like okay what if they attempt to murder me what if they get an
Abortion and don't tell me what if it turns out they're a serial killer and so now they're in jail forever and so to
All of that we would say that the biblical call is stay married as best you can like stay we do believe it says
A wife shouldn't leave her husband if she does so he adds a wife shouldn't leave but if she does she should remain separated
Or else be reconciled to him but she shouldn't get remarried and so we would say that there are times you need to get out of the house
There are times when you need to call the police absolutely there are times when you need to call the but the overall call is to
Stay married and to walk that out and our invitation would be come talk to us don't do that on your own and don't just take
This as a blanket here's the aggressive answer and not let us be church family in the midst of all this and trying to
Figure this out the only thing I add to that is that unfaithfulness is painful it does not with the call the overall call the
New Testament being stay married we want to lean in that as much as possible and see Jesus go to work on us next question
Is remarriage after divorce permissible for a Christian yes when the divorce was permissible so if you read Matthew 19 where it says except for
Sexual immorality marries another commits adultery you would have to read in the case of sexual mean you're free to remarry I think that
Also when he says you're not enslaved in 1 Corinthians 7 he means you're also free to remarry otherwise it would be the case where he
Says in 1 Corinthians where if you're not living together try to seek reconciliation so our hope would be to reconcile or remain unmarried
Which can be very difficult which can be very painful I do think that Jesus in Matthew 19 says Jesus teaching in Matthew 19
Was controversial among his followers two seconds later so if we're still discussing this the first thing out of his disciples mouth was wait what you
Shouldn't get a divorce and they said why would you even get married then that's terrible and Jesus responds you don't have to get married
You can be fine and one of the things that he hints at and Paul specifically says is that God gives grace in the midst of
Singleness so if you were in a situation where you are forcibly singled and you did not want to be but you feel like I'm not free to get remarried that there's grace for that
That God empowers that for you so we would say if you're in a situation where the divorce was permissible then yes you'd be free to remarry
In other situations you ought to be waiting and hoping for reconciliation if your spouse dies you're free to remarry and then we also have questions on okay
Did you wait did you hold out for reconciliation and now they have remarried and so there's just no hope for reconciliation and they are what the Bible would say is committing adultery now in their new marriage also it's a big mess in our relationships and it's a big mess
In all of this and so there's a lot of grace there's a lot of conversations and just for the record so you know if you have been divorced and are remarried this is a marriage to be treated as gloriously and as much as you like to love and serve it is a real marriage
It's always treated like a real marriage in the Bible the Bible never encourages leave this marriage go back to your original spouse it actually discourages that on multiple occasions says that's terrible and heinous and so we would just say if you're in this
Situation and you're already remarried we love you we want to help you have a really beautiful marriage and there is no amount of you should feel shame you should talk with Jesus about whether or not your marriage
Started off poorly and then you get to repent and you just get to walk forward and having a beautiful marriage now next question how do we lovingly hold the other person accountable without causing guilt or shame when it comes to the lack of sexual intimacy
Okay I want to talk first first Corinthians seven I just want to say like so this question is it's not working the way the person who's writing it is saying like I want to have not a lack of sexual intimacy but we do have a lack of sexual
Intimacy how do I approach that I want to say first that if the other person is not your spouse they're doing great y'all should have a complete lack of sexual intimacy we're very proud of them if the other person is your spouse the Bible
Speaks differently there so the Bible says we're going to look in this is first of all first Corinthians seven has a lot to say about this six and seven because Paul was doing this he was just answering questions that people had sent in and so he talks on this as well he
Says now concerning the matters about which you wrote and they wrote to him saying isn't it good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman and he's like sure but because of the temptation to sexual immorality each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband the husband should give to his
Wife her conjugal rights which was crazy for him to say he says that the husband has to give to his wife he's not just in charge of this and likewise the wife to her husband for the wife does not have authority over her own body but the husband
Does likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body but the wife does do not deprive one another except perhaps on agreement for a limited time that you may devote yourselves to prayer but then come together again so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self control
Now he says now as a concession not a command I say this I wish that all were as myself but each one has his own gift from God one of one kind of one another so he says this is a concession that you should get married he's saying it because you deal with sexual temptation I'm saying get married do this he says that's a concession you don't have to
Get married if you can be fine and not burn with desire then no concessions made so we believe the Bible teaches that in marriage you should have active consistent regular sexual intimacy and that you should only not have active regular consistent sexual intimacy if you both agree on it Paul says for the purpose of prayer and then afterwards
You can come back together and I think that's a fair thing where it's like we're so busy that we're having to choose now between like are we going to pursue Jesus are we going to pursue each other and he says sometimes you need to say hey let's just pursue Jesus for a time but then come back together I also have found as a pastor that most marriages are not oh we're both a six on the how our desire for
Intimacy scale we're both a seven like it usually is like a seven marries a three and I also have found that in general it's kind of like when you're driving down the road everyone who drives slower than you is got to be like 95 years old and should not have a license and everyone who drives faster than you is a complete psycho and so usually when a three marries a seven the seven is going what is wrong with you why do you have no desire
For me why don't you love me why is this why I don't understand and the three's going what is wrong with you is this all you think about like quit watching TV like go get a hobby like I don't know what you're probably like leave me alone and the truth is we do have different levels of desire but the Bible says no we ought to try to walk this out so the question is how do I approach my spouse this is this question was asked by a seven who's married to a
Three how do I approach my spouse and try to not just say hey I just like do I just leave first Corinthians seven laying around the house open hope they read it hope it changes their heart it's like no how do you approach your spouse which would be graciously discussing this and trying to help them figure out how to say yes realizing that the desires that this would be healthy that this would be good discussing it and then backing up not just demanding not
Just like realizing that it's going to take a while for them to get used to this and also I would say set the runway out longer than just you you know it's in there we should this should already be working but no set it out to like here's my goal for the next year here's our goal for the next two years like we want this to be healthy eventually and we're going to work towards it specifically from the person who's in the position of I desire this more and don't
Understand I will also just say and this is usually it also has to do with runway is different for different people so in general men are visual so just like wives if you step out of your shower and your husband is there he's paying attention maybe makes you uncomfortable but reverse that a lot of times if a husband steps out of the shower and you're there you're not paying attention like you you're like you know like it's just it's a different approach to how you get excited about things how you think
About things and so I I just know that like if I've had a terrible day and my wife and I have only argued we go to bed I'm like I think we should make out I think that would make this day better I think that would help us feel love for each other and she's like are you crazy we were just yelling at each other I have no desire to kiss you for the next seven years and it has to do with how I feel loved and how I feel close to her and how she feels loved and how she feels close and so I would say don't just assume your spouse
Is the enemy but try to figure out how do we get you to say yes what is fun for you how do we get there so that's all the things though well I'm going to speak from the perspective of a wife who has struggled with this some in my marriage I grew up with a very negative view of sex based on just very strict views from my parents and so I had to overcome a lot of that and so I want to speak to you honestly as a wife whose husband has pursued her in this one of the things that I can encourage you to do from the beginning is to
Just strike away all weirdness and start praying about it and talking about it don't let it be the elephant in the room for a long time it'll just destroy you it'll it'll eat away at both of you and so start talking about it start praying about it then one of the most loving things that my husband's done for me in times where this has been a challenge is he has made this an us problem something we needed to solve not something I needed to fix and because of that attitude I have been much more willing and have enjoyed getting to grow in this area because
It was through love and it was through this is something God has given us as a blessing and he continually pointed me towards that and so it's one of the most loving things he's done in my marriage and I appreciate it and so I'm encouraging you guys if this is you or it could be the opposite I'm sorry it's more the unwilling the one who's pursuing the unwilling spouse just don't give up and be and be loving and be caring and think about this as something you're going to walk together in until the day you die and so a couple practical things when Chet was mentioning
Helping you know your spouse say yes talk to your spouse about what that is what will help them say yes for me one of the things is if my house is a mess and the I have a lot of chores left to do that I'm not it's not the night for me but if my husband helps me put the dishes away and helps get the house clean and get the girls in the bed he's setting the stage for love and we know that a lot of women it's for women there's got to be love and a connection for that to be something you even want to participate in now I'm not disregarding what Chet says sometimes we just need to say yes out of love for our husbands and be ready
To go in five minutes because he is you know it's just one of those things but I think the times where he is showing love by helping us say yes and I am speaking from the women's perspective this could be reversed I realize we you know when when he's helping us say yes we can feel very loved and so kind of in closing I have read through and recommend the book that our church recommends which is intended for pleasure it has you could you could cherry-pick in there information if you needed it but to read the whole thing through even if it doesn't apply to you just gives you such a healthy perspective on this aspect of the Christian marriage and finally just for
Those of you who are busy and that is your excuse or who are too tired or who just don't want to do it the best advice that I can give you right now is to schedule it and I know that sounds very practical and you don't really find it in the Bible but it takes a lot of the pressure and the stress off if you both know it's coming if it's scheduled at a time when you feel like you're going to be relaxed when you feel like you can prepare get your heart there get your mind there so if you want to talk about scheduling I have a planner I love my planner we can talk about all things scheduling but even this as awkward as this topic has been for me in the past it's funny that a six-month period of just pursuing it and pursuing the Lord in it how he's
Opened my heart to be able to talk about it so if you need to talk about this I know that our pastors are there for that I am here for that and we have some great resources we can recommend alongside of it if if your spouse consistently says no that is not an excuse for sin so you cannot say well they forced me to that's not how that works you pursue holiness and you pursue your spouse and then I will say if you're if you are on the lower scale than your spouse and they're consistently coach them up say this that's like that's the hardest thing for me to say yes to like this is the worst approach ever here's how I want to say yes so like go back and try again and I want to say yes to this like I want to say yes I want to say yes in the future to this like that that would help as well so these are really really good
Answers and these are really tough questions we've got a few more we're going to be a little more concise on for the sake of time next question when we sin against our spouse without them knowing is it okay to confess and repent only to God if the sin is never repeated quickly in general no and even the way that question is phrased sounds like my thought process when I used to look at pornography I would tell myself I'll never do this again and that was really just so I wouldn't have to talk to my wife about it also the reason I would not confess my sin to my wife was that she was scarier than Jesus she was bigger than Jesus and so I was willing to talk to Jesus about it but I wasn't willing to talk to her about it and I had to I had to swap that I had to believe in Jesus more than I than I needed her in order for us to get healthy I would also say that's the general answer there may be for
Someone who's not asking about infidelity who's not asking about because sometimes people say well I did this one time I'm not going to cheat on him again and I know it's just going to hurt him it's like no that's not how that works you ought to confess your sin you ought to walk that out into the light because that's actually it's hurting you in ways you don't know but for the person who's saying no it's not that it's like I spent the whole day being mad at them about a thing and then I realized I shouldn't have been acting that way and I changed my attitude and when they get home I don't want to say I need you to sit down and I spent 25 minutes thinking terrible terrible thoughts about you all day it's like maybe maybe that is a different scenario so but in general yes and I agree with that I'm not going to go into
Specific scenarios but basically you and your spouse may need to talk about with sin that is averted and you choose not to go down that path if you want to be told about every little thing when in certain situations I've just directed my husband to some male accountability where it was hurtful to hear about certain things and I gave him permission to talk to some others and repent to them and so maybe worth a conversation if that if you think something you're dealing with may fall in that category and that's not just a husband-spouse rule that's a biblical rule is when you know you've sinned against somebody you're supposed to you should go talk the goal yeah the goal here is just walk in the light and every marriage is case by case I've heard of some accountability partner or some husbands and wives who are like accountability partners and they
Share everything that that's helpful for them that's good that's not helpful for in our marriage my wife is generally when especially when it comes to sexual temptation just wants to know generally are you walking in the light how's it going how can I be praying for you every marriage is different but the goal is walking in light the goal is bearing one another's burdens and that's what we're going for so we're gonna be a little more descriptive as opposed to prescriptiveness next question if you were married and divorced prior to becoming a believer aren't those sins washed clean and you're born again a fresh new start so would remarriage still be a sin if that person's old sin was washed away if you take the first half of that question and don't do the so would remarriage still the answer is yes if you become a Christian all of your sin
Is washed away and not just past sin future sin that you are wiped clean that you not only have you're not given a clean slate that you didn't have to keep together you give Jesus your slate he takes yours you swap names on the tests you turn in and you stand before Christ before God in Christ that his goodness is for you and that his death was for you but specifically the question is how do Christians think about past sin when they become a Christian and I think one of the some of the good examples are what John says the John the Baptist he says bear fruit in keeping with repentance and then when Jesus interacts with Zacchaeus I think that's a good example to try to think about it so Zacchaeus meets Jesus becomes a believer and then says I'm gonna pay back everybody that I ever cheated he doesn't say sweet all the money I stole is now washed clean and if I
Spend it new and afresh it's as if it was mine at the beginning he actually says no I'm gonna try to restore what was broken and so I think that as Christians we walk out the effects of past sin and we try to figure out what's holy now it's the the word Jesus interacts with the lady in adultery and says go and sin no more so it's this idea of okay all my sins clean but how do I move forward in holiness and so I think the question is the same for them as everybody else which is how did that go down what's the situation and what's holiness as we move forward so I would not say that it just automatically means if you were divorced prior to becoming a Christian that that you that's as if that never happened because I don't think that's how the Bible generally treats sin and is this even more we did it you
Guys we did it not concisely but we did it I want to thank Chet and Katie for coming up here answering questions you guys give me a hand applause you